The Gift of Strong Women

My wife, Carly, is a strong woman. I knew this before we even started dating because we did ministry side-by-side as college students, especially with international students.

Sure, she was on the quieter side, but when she spoke, no one wondered where she stood on an issue.[1]

I was never threatened by Carly’s strength, her candor, her voice. At least I don’t think so. That all seemed quite normal to me because I’ve been surrounded by strong women my entire life.

My mom, my sister, both my grandmothers, my mom’s sister and sisters-in-law, my cousins (most of whom walk with Jesus). The women from our church in New York I mentioned in my last post.

All of them were strong.

Decisive. Fearless. Convicted. Dedicated.

Every single one of them.

So much for biblical womanhood.

This is Carly, too.

Throughout our marriage, Carly has been gracious and patient as I’ve learned to listen to her voice, understand her perspective, heed her warnings, take her advice, and yes, submit to her expertise or opinion often. (I’m still learning, of course. I wish I could say that I always do these things!)

Carly’s devoted to Jesus and incredibly gifted and capable. She’s passionate about serving the church and more than willing. We share similar interests, perspective on biblical issues, and even some spiritual gifts. But in terms of personality, style, demeanor, and how we process and act on information, we’re quite different. In fact, we’re pretty complementary in that way.

When it came to ministering as partners in a local church setting, however, it was somewhat of a mystery that plagued us both.

As a complementarian couple in a complementarian church, what does ministry look like together?

Or should that even be a thing?

We thought it should. Theologically, we were in a bind. What happens when the wife is strong and has spiritual gifts traditionally “reserved” for males?

So during the interim period when our local church was looking for its next lead pastor, Carly and I sensed that role was not for me. God seemed to be calling us to pursue a new ministry together.

As it turned out (terrible story telling, I know, but we have to keep this thing moving), God provided an opportunity for us to join the staff of the organization we were involved with in college–Cru.[2]

Cru, which is not a local church and exists outside the bounds of a particular church denomination, doesn’t take a theological stance on gender roles. Functionally, however, it does: women can lead in any capacity. Currently, the director of campus ministry in the U.S. is a woman.

Serving in a parachurch organization would not only give us both a chance to minister the gospel, but would allow Carly to exercise her gifts, teaching in particular, without violating our complementarian convictions in a local church (which, as I mentioned in my last post, were already crumbling).[3]

Strong women aren’t a problem to be managed or eliminated. They are a gift to the church, especially its men.

As we’ve navigated local church and parachurch ministry as a couple, I got glimpses of what Carly had seen and experienced in the male-dominated church world through her distinctive feminine eyes.

It was like Ben Stein showed up and gave me a drop of Clear Eyes to refresh my theological vision. Godly women aren’t simply called to be silent submitters to ego-fragile men. Seeing this led to thinking long and hard about how the gifts of women–especially leadership, wisdom, discernment, and teaching (those traditionally reserved for men!)–actually fit in most churches today.

As if all that wasn’t enough, God has given Carly and me two daughters who are nothing if not strong. One takes charge; the other will not back down. What’s more is that they love Jesus. They are increasing in their knowledge of the Bible and understanding of the gospel every single day.

I had to ask myself, What if they want to preach? teach? lead? What if they are mature, able, and willing to do so? What would I say to them?

Not only did these strong women prompt these important questions, they helped me see that their gifts, skills, maturity, and passions were necessary and essential in the church.

Strong women aren’t a problem to be managed or eliminated. They are a gift to the church, especially its men.

Having these strong women in my life–my wife being the foremost–opened my eyes to the major blind spots and inconsistencies in the complementarian framework I had failed to see for so long.

We’ll look at these in tomorrow’s post. Then (finally!), we’ll turn to the biblical text to see what it has to say about women in ministry and how we might consider making applications in our context today.

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Notes

[1] I certainly didn’t wonder where she stood when she called me out for basically treating her like a girlfriend even though we weren’t officially dating. But that’s a story for another day.

[2] Cru is the ministry formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ.

[3] “Parachurch” is a term used for ministry organizations that are not a local church. Even a seminary or publishing company associated with a denomination would be considered a “parachurch.” The prefix “para” comes from the Greek word para meaning “alongside” or “beside.” A parachurch ministry, at least in theory, is designed to function alongside or in cooperation with local churches. Still, we continued to wonder: if women weren’t allowed to teach men in a church setting, why should they be able to in a parachurch/campus ministry setting? It’s interesting to note that this idea seems to be unique to Protestants, however. The Roman Catholic Church, it seems to me, considers their seminaries, schools, hospitals, humanitarian ministries, etc. part and parcel of their mission. Read more here and here.

Interlude: Why I’m Writing About Women Now

Throughout this summer series that I’m calling Let Her Lead, I’ll occasionally write a short “interludes” (like this one) to help bridge from article to article, provide context, or say something I think is timely but just doesn’t seem to fit elsewhere. Most likely, these thoughts will be far less organized than a normal series post.

Earlier today, a friend of mine–a woman–sent me a message wondering if I intentionally wrote the first post in the series at the same time that certain male leaders in a large North American denomination spoke out against women in church leadership. (They did this on Mother’s Day of all days.)

You might ask, “What was it?!” Well, I’m not going to link to anything, but I read some posts on Twitter and Instagram on Sunday that broke my heart. You can easily find them and if this conversation has interested you for a while, you have probably already seen what I’m talking about. Suffice to say that what was said didn’t strike the note of Christian charity.

Back to the timing of my post. The answer is “no” but “yes.”

What I wrote wasn’t a direct, flurried response to those very sad and disheartening things I read. I wasn’t on Twitter one moment and then pounding the keyboard the next.

That said, I began this series now because I had been considering it for quite some time anyway. The Christian social media subculture just provided the right opportunity for it. In the words of Dr. King, “The time is always right to do what is right.”

The heartbreak (okay, anger is what I felt first, let’s be honest) is what moved me to say Enough is enough! I have a wife who is so talented and gifted and full of zeal for the gospel and justice (if you know her, you already know this). I have two brilliant, young daughters who love Jesus and know more Scripture than I did at their age. I know many women who have influenced and inspired me at a very deep level. I work on a ministry team with some amazing, talented women. (I’ll share more on all this soon.)

So here’s the thing. Here’s why I started writing: how we talk about and relate to and labor with these women–all women–matters.

And if the Church keeps putting “women” in their “place,” we lose. Every single time. Why?

Because Jesus never did that. And that is where this all starts.

Wherever you’re at in this conversation, it must start and end with Jesus. I want to be like him. And I hope you do, too.

(It’s worth mentioning that not all people who hold to male-only leadership put women down. We’ll talk more about that, too.)

One last reason I’m writing this now. As a white, Christian man who has benefited from a theology of male-only leadership, I sense a holy responsibility to help my brothers in Christ consider a legitimate, biblically faithful alternative. I also sense a holy responsibility to empower my sisters in Christ who for far too long have been marginalized and (let’s be honest) flat-out ignored simply because of their gender.

Doing justice means that the advantaged stand up, speak out, and lay down their perceived rights to uphold and give advantage to others. Or, as Tim Keller has written, doing justice is giving people their due. In other words, what they are owed.

I’ve taken too long to realize this when it comes to women in the church.

But it’s never too late to do what’s right.

How I Changed My Mind on Women’s Roles in Ministry

I walked out of the room once she stood up to speak.

It wasn’t anything personal (or so I thought).

It was a matter of conscience. Of conviction! I was taught to believe–and came to the conclusion myself–that a woman should not teach men from the Scriptures in a public worship setting. This wasn’t “church” proper on a Sunday morning; it was a multi-ministry, interdenominational worship event. But it felt the same to me.

I had to stick to my conviction. I had Bible verses to prove my point!

Women aren’t allowed to teach or lead men.

So I walked out quietly.

That night back in mid-2008 in Johannesburg, South Africa, still haunts me. I felt brazen and principled and manly. Like I died on the right hill.

But as I look back at the me from eleven years ago, I feel small. Confused. Cowardly. Anything but manly. Ashamed of my thoughts, words, and actions. Most likely, my missionary teammates wouldn’t remember that night (I hope). But I do.

And I cringe.

I wish I could go back and stop myself from walking out.

I wish I could tell my teammates how wrong I was.

Mostly, I wish I could ask the young woman who stood up to teach from the Scriptures for her forgiveness. She is a person, with a name, gifted by God to minister to his people. Including me.

But I don’t know her name.

I didn’t stick around to ask.

It was more personal than I foolishly believed.

Unfortunately, I can’t go back.

But what I can do is repent.

Pursuing Private and Public Repentance

I’ve repented privately through countless hours of study, prayer, conversations (particularly with my wife, bless her heart), and explaining to others how I now understand specific Bible texts about women and ministry when I have an opportunity.

What I’m writing now, and what I will write over the course of the summer, is what I’ll call my public repentance.

I need to repent because I have knowingly and unknowingly marginalized and even rejected women who were gifted and called by God because of a shortsighted and narrow view of gender roles, the Scriptures, and how we apply certain passages.

It’s a vulnerable position to be in. “I think I was wrong on this before and am changing my mind” is one of the most humbling things you can say. It’s also one of the most freeing.

The combination of being humbled (aka humiliation) and freedom is at the core of what repentance brings in our relationship with God and each other. It’s powerful and beautiful and I forget it far too often.

What I’ve Come to Believe About Women in Ministry

Repentance means change. So what am I changing? Over the past twenty months or so, I’ve intentionally reexamined the Bible to see what it has to say about leadership in the church, in general, and the role of women, in particular.

Here’s the conclusion I’ve come to embrace:

We must not only permit but encourage and champion the full participation of women in the life and leadership of the Church.

It’s important to say that this is not a belief that someone needs to hold (or even have an opinion on!) to be a Christian. It’s not, in Christian lingo, a “salvation issue.” For some Christians in other parts of the world, this would never even be an issue.

We must not only permit but encourage and champion the full participation of women in the life and leadership of the Church.

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But what we believe about women in the church has real-world implications and consequences. If Christians (read: Christian men) treat women as second-class kingdom citizens, we undermine the very essence of God’s kingdom and how he has designed his people to function. We’ll operate at 50% efficiency (at best), meanwhile destroying our witness before a watching world. There’s much more to say about this and I will (hopefully) write more in upcoming posts.

When I’ve told people recently that I believe we must open up the full participation of women in the life and leadership of the Church, it’s often met with this kind of question, “So, what does that mean? Can women teach? Be pastors? Elders? What can they do?”

In another post, I’ll explain why those questions are actually the wrong place to begin.

For now, I’ll answer: yes. I believe women should be able to exercise their gifts as teachers and leaders (elder, pastor, bishop, etc.–whatever a denomination calls them) in order to minister to women and men in the church.

How Did I Get Here?

Three lines of evidence helped me arrive at this new place: 1) personal experience in life and ministry; 2) observations within evangelical subculture that emphasizes male dominance and female subservience; and 3) conclusions drawn from my own extensive biblical study of the issue.

If you’re freaking out right now that the Bible was third on the list, these are not in order of importance. (Keep reading for an explanation!)

My journey didn’t start on a whim. I didn’t wake up and say, “I’m going to read Paul’s letters differently today!” No, experiences and observations snowballed over time. As I put the jigsaw pieces together, I started to make sense of what I (and my wife) had experienced, seen, and heard for decades.

Experiences and observations then forced me to go back to the Bible to ask the all-important question: are my inclinations in line with God’s word or am I way off?

It’s been a long and grueling, yet rewarding, journey. Of course, it’s not over. I don’t have all the answers. But I’m moving, I think, in the right direction.

About six months in (to the twenty month journey I mentioned above), I began to sense my view on women was shifting. I realized, eventually, since this shift would be seismic, I needed to tell my wife!

When I did, she was a bit surprised, but not shocked. There were things in our life, as individuals and a couple, that helped break up the concrete-hard “male-only leader” position we both held from childhood. We both had icky feelings about how women had been treated in the church. But icky feelings alone aren’t a good reason to change a theological position and practice.

After initially telling my wife, I continued to examine the key Scriptures in this conversation. As I did, I only became more convinced that women ought to be fully included in the church’s leadership.

As you think about the three lines of intersecting evidence I mentioned, you may have an immediate objection: What if your observations and experiences have influenced your biblical conclusions?

That may be true. I’m self-aware enough to acknowledge that. No one is an unbiased interpreter of any text, Bible or otherwise. However, consider an alternative perspective.

I never intentionally sought to change my mind on this issue without God’s gracious intervention. In fact, to maintain my (now old) position would have benefited me as a male in the traditional North American structure of the church. It required no sacrifice on my part.

To champion the full inclusion and participation of women in church leadership means that I must divest myself of any power I had or could have. The sinful nature in me would never depart with anything that feeds the idols of power or control. Instead, sin seeks to hoard it.

To champion the full inclusion and participation of women in church leadership means that I must divest myself of any power I had or could have.

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As a man, this makes no sense if we are playing for keeps. But since the foundational principle of God’s kingdom is that we lose our lives to gain our lives, the inclusion of women aligns more fully with what Jesus taught about relationships and leadership in his kingdom.

This all makes me wonder if it is possible that God, in his kindness, has provided these experiences and observations to open my eyes to see his word in a fresh way that I never could have before. I think so.

The Scriptures never change. But the way I see them certainly does. Prayer, community, wisdom, and empathy will help us use–not ignore–the experiences to see more clearly to love God and our neighbor better.

We can’t hold up a stonewalled hand to God and say, “I do not permit you to teach me!”

If we did, well, then we might still be practicing slavery today.

Journey with Me and Practice Charity

This summer, I’m going to write about my journey. I’ll start by sharing parts of what I’ve experienced and observed as it relates to gender in the church, hopefully framing it within the wider cultural context the church is in now.

Then, over several posts (who knows how many), I’ll explain what I see in the Scriptures that lead me to believe that women can be full participants in the life and leadership of the church.

I don’t have it all figured out. There’s still a whole lot I’m struggling through. But, right now, it’s a good place to be.

It likely won’t be this neat and tidy, but in general I’ll have four major themes or types of posts:

1. Examining the overarching narrative of the Bible. We’ll see how it reveals God’s design for gender roles in his Kingdom, how sin has marred that design and brought about all kinds of destruction and division between the genders, and how God is graciously, incrementally, and radically redeeming this brokenness.
2. Examining the elevated place of women in the ministries of Jesus and Paul. We’ll see how Jesus and Paul, even though they operated in patriarchal cultures, empowered women to be full-fledged, active participants and leaders in the ministry of the church.
3. Examining closely the controversial texts that relate directly to women in the church. This is what you’re here for, I’d guess. We’ll tackle head-on those passages that have been traditionally understood to limit, silence, or exclude women. What we’ll see is that these passages can be viewed in a different light with a few key historical and cultural insights as well as analysis of the original language, particularly in Paul (it will only get a little bit nerdy, I hope). We’ll see that these passages can’t always be applied generically and universally to all church situations everywhere.
4. Examining anything else noteworthy I have filed away in my notes. There may be things outside of these categories that I come across as I review what I’ve studied. Those will get lumped together at some point. Think of it like a junk-drawer appendix.

The heart behind all this writing is to benefit everyday Christians, not impress the academics. Of course, I’ll cite lots of sources (there has been a whole lot written on this for decades) and get into some heady stuff. But I’ll do my best to cut through the mire, define big churchy words, try to keep it easy to follow.

You may be shouting for joy. You may be ready to cancel me. Wherever you are, I invite you to follow me on this journey.

And if you do (especially if you’re inclined to comment), please practice charity.

You’re free to disagree here. All you want, in fact. I want to hear your side. But, if you follow Jesus–whichever “side” you’re on–you are not free to be uncharitable.

As it is written, “If I can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge…but don’t have love, I gain nothing” (1 Cor. 13:2-3).

Let’s heed the warning, and get into it.

The 3 Things You Need to Become a Servant Leader

Most of us just shared a Thanksgiving meal (safely, I hope!) with our loved ones. Close your eyes and paint the picture of that decadent day. 

Think back and ask, Who’s sitting waiting for the meal to arrive at the table? Who’s slaving and sweating so everyone else can sit and wait? Who’s washing dishes after the meal? Who’s dishing out the pie and brewing the coffee at dessert? 

We’d all admit that the people who served us on Thanksgiving or any other day, are the real heroes. And whether they held an important title in our family or community, without a shred of doubt we’d call them leaders. 

Right?

This is a picture of servant-leadership. And being a servant is the heartbeat of true leadership. Deep down we get this. But when push comes to shove, it’s hard to live out. Why? 

Because we’d rather be the one watching the NFL on FOX waiting for the pumpkin pie to land in our laps.

Being a servant takes work. That’s why when it comes to leadership in everyday life—whether it’s at work, at home, in the church, on a team, in the classroom, anywhere—any other leadership style is so much easier.

A few newsletters back, I wrote about what servant-leadership looks like. I emphasized being a servant rather than just adding characteristics to your leadership arsenal. Give that a read if you haven’t and then come back here.

Today, I’ll answer the question, How do I become a servant? But first, a tiny bit of history.

Where does Servant-Leadership Come From?

Robert Greenleaf is often credited as the originator of the concept of servant-leadership. He wrote an essay in 1970 that eventually turned into a book. This was Greenleaf’s primary contribution to the field of leadership. 

I find it a bit humorous that Greenleaf holds the prestigious honor of founding this idea. 

After all, Jesus, the greatest servant-leader who ever lived, came on the scene a tad before 1970. 

Greenleaf wrote about servant-leadership from a business management perspective. Jesus actually lived the life of a servant in flesh and blood and sacrificed his life for the entire world (aka major servant-leadership act there).

Jesus was a rabbi—literally “teacher” in Hebrew. Rabbis had “disciples.” These were people who learned their rabbi’s teaching and his way of life. Rabbis were community leaders. 

On the last night before he was crucified, Rabbi Jesus was with his disciples ready to eat a festival meal together (called Passover). They gathered in a furnished room after a busy week. It was customary in those days for the servant of the house to wash the feet of dinner guests before eating. Without paved roads, sanitation, and a sewer system the walkways would get pretty gnarly. It was a dirty job but someone had to do it. 

As the meal progressed, no house servant showed up. And none of the disciples stepped up to the task. So Jesus stripped down, grabbed a towel, and started to clean the mud-caked feet of his students. 

Everyone in the room saw him doing the lowest possible job. 

And in that moment everyone in that room knew who the real leader was.

The One who served. 

I hate to break it to Mr. Greenleaf, but he didn’t discover servant-leadership in 1970. 

As a Christian, I take my leadership cues from Jesus. If you aren’t a Christian, I don’t know where you go for leadership, but I’d encourage you to at least listen to Jesus and watch his way of life.

You have nothing to lose.

Now, how do you become a servant-leader? It’s not as easy as 1-2-3. Few things are. These aren’t so much “steps” as a three-part paradigm shift to how you see the world of leadership. 

Admit Your Desire to Dominate

One time Jesus’ friends were fighting about what cabinet positions they would hold when Jesus becomes pres—I mean, king. So Jesus had a frank conversation with them about how leadership works in this world compared to how it works in his kingdom. 

He said, “You’ve observed how godless rulers throw their weight around, and when people get a little power how quickly it goes to their heads. It’s not going to be that way with you. Whoever wants to be great must become a servant” (Mark 10:42-43).

Jesus exposes the human craving to dominate. He knows that we aren’t born servants with humble, tender hearts ready to say, “What can I do for you?” Instead, Jesus knows we are born with a desire to be everyone’s master. 

And when we actually get power? Watch out. You know the phrase, “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” It’s true. 

So the first “step” to becoming a servant-leader is to acknowledge and admit that being a servant goes against your very nature.

How does this work practically? Talk to yourself. Whenever you make a decision or go into a conversation or make a change or whatever you do as a leader, remind yourself, “I admit going into this situation that it’s easy for power to get the best of me. I’m naturally a power-hungry, authority-loving, lord-it-over kind of leader who tends to squish everyone in my path.”

Once you say this to yourself you’ll realize how horrible it sounds. You’ll realize that no one wants to follow a leader like that. (You wouldn’t either.)

When I do this, I don’t go in guns a blazin’. And I’m no longer hellbent on getting my own way. Instead, I’m ready to listen, empathize, collaborate, weep, teach, help, correct, train, encourage. Whatever is needed in the moment. 

Admit your desire to dominate. You’ll begin to see how futile and counterproductive domination actually is.

Find the Right Model

Once you’re in this position of admitting your tendency to be the kind of leader no one wants to follow, you’re ready to find the right model. 

And this is where Jesus comes in. He’s the perfect leader who always spoke truthfully and graciously. Who always spoke truth to power and had compassion on the vulnerable. He called out hypocrisy and empowered people society overlooked. He body confronted sin and made the ultimate sacrifice for sin by dying in our place.

In the last part of that passage from Mark 10 above, Jesus says this: “Whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave. That is what the Son of Man has done: He came to serve, not to be served—and then to give away his life in exchange for many who are held hostage” (verses 44-45).

Jesus is the Son of Man. He’s telling his disciples about his mission. And this is where my HUGE DISCLAIMER comes in.

Jesus is not merely saying, “I’m your model. I’m a servant. Imitate me!” 

If he were only saying that, he would crush us because we could never live up to his example. 

That’s why it bothers me so much when I hear, “On the cross, Jesus is the greatest example of love.” Of course that’s true. 

But he is so much more than that. 

Examples can’t save you. But a Redeemer can. And that’s who Jesus is.

Jesus is really saying, “I came to save you from lord-it-over kind of life. You don’t need to live to dominate others and live for your own power and glory. Don’t you see that you are enslaved to self-glory? Because you live this way, I will give my life as a ransom for you. And once you’ve been ransomed, what else can you do but make yourself a servant of everyone you meet?” 

When we see that Jesus is the right model, we actually come to find out that he’s morethan a model. He’s the true Servant-Leader who ransomed us from slavery to self-glory. And he’s brought us into life of freedom where we gladly serve others.

Because Jesus is more than a model, he actually won’t crush us when we fail to live up to his example. Instead, he forgives us and empowers us to keep going. 

That’s servant-leadership.

How do you do this practically? Watch Jesus. Spend a lot of time reading the Gospels. Marvel at him. Worship him. Obey him. Imitate him. 

Chances are you also know someone who reflects this (at least a little bit). Watch them, too. Ask them questions. Listen to them. Learn from the bad. Imitate the good.

Embrace the Process

The third “step” is an ongoing mindset. You don’t just become a servant leader. You are always becoming. It’s a never-ending, messy process. 

You will fail. I fail. We all fail. Embrace it. Admit it. 

Then remember the good news that we have a Servant-Leader who never failed. And remind yourself of that. Every. Single. Day.

The best part? When we let power go to our heads, our Servant-Leader doesn’t frown over us saying, “Here we go again. I can’t believe you!” 

No. He kneels down, right there with us, in the mess. He gently corrects, holds us, washes us clean, and says, “Remember that I’ve served you. I’ve given you everything I have. Now, let me help you up. I’m with you. Keep going. Keep leading. Keep serving.”

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This post originally appeared at https://jamespruch.substack.com/p/the-3-things-you-need-to-become-a on December 1, 2020.

How Should I Respond to My “Fact-Based” Friends?

It’s fairly common to talk with non-Christian friends who may, even in passing, say they struggle to believe any religion because they’re “fact-based” people (or something to that effect). Our friends may add that they “believe in” science or math because those disciplines are “fact-based.”

It puts us in a tough spot. Maybe your friend is being genuine. Maybe they are trying to push your buttons. What if they give you a chance to respond? We can’t just say, “Well, I just believe the Bible. That’s why it’s called faith, man!” That’s off-putting. It’s not compassionate. It’s also flat wrong.

So what can we say? It’s not as intimating as it seems. Start simple:

I totally agree with you! I want to—and do—believe in facts, too. 

That’s starts off the response with the right tone. If our friends already know we follow Jesus, chances are they’ll be blown away by that. But can we say more—something with depth that will get them thinking? Here’s a stab at it and something you might find helpful:

You know that I follow Jesus. But my belief in him is not based on blind faith. In fact, quite the opposite. Everything we know about Jesus happened in real time and real space, witnessed by hundreds and even thousands of people. In other words, Christianity is fact-based. Blind faith says, “Believe it because someone (maybe even God) says so.” But it doesn’t seem to me that God wants us to operate like that. Why? Because what we know about Jesus is recorded in the Bible, which is the most historically reliable ancient document in the entire world. The Bible itself, many, many times, points to the fact that it’s because of eyewitness testimony that we can believe Jesus is the God-Man, who came from outside our world to live, die, and rise again.

I’d encourage you to do some research—and I’d be happy to research with you—on every other religion out there. I’ve found that every other religion is actually not based in historical facts and events that happened in real time and space. Instead, they are products of a private vision or dream or a system created in someone’s own mind. It’s pretty amazing how consistently this is the case as we look at their origins. Yet, standing on the other side of every other religious system, is Jesus, the one who had flesh, blood, and bones; ate and drank; healed the sick; raised the dead; and died on a cross and rose from the dead. And it was all accomplished in public and written down for us. What I believe is totally fact-based. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. I completely agree with you.